Curse

mytwobits · Aug 08, 2012, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSBasilisk

Don't hesitate to cancel a trade you can't verify as legit, especially if the other person is offering items in place of gold or an accepted alternative currency. It is your right as trader to tell the other player to get their business in order before trying to buy from you. If they try to claim you're being unreasonable, put them on Ignore.

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By "dark", I assume you mean the Window looked like this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/File:TW-NoOffer.jpg

Here's how it works: The other player submits a trade and you see the items. If they want to change the trade, they hit "Change Offer" and shift items/gold as needed. When they do that, you see a black bar saying the offer has been changed. When they hit "Submit Offer" the new items become visible. Only when both players have hit "Submit Offer" and "Accept" can the trade complete.

There is no way for you to "brighten" his side of the window, because when it's not visible he's still changing things. As such, if you can't see his side of the window you shouldn't hit Accept until you can and have reviewed every number and item.

Maybe he was quickly cycling "Change" and "Submit Offer" so that you couldn't see his portion of the screen, but allowed enough time for you to hit Accept. Maybe he made enough rapid changes he managed to glitch something in the Trade window. Maybe, just maybe, you were so stressed out from his actions that you just hit Accept when it finally came up without pausing to look. In any case, you should have cancelled and told him to get his **** in order or get out.

***

Also, don't immediately decide all GW players are like that guy. There are scammers in every online game, the only difference is how they can manipulate the system to their benefit. ANet has done its best to limit their options, has issued warnings, and will ban known culprits.

But at some point they can't do anything else without placing unreasonable restrictions on trading. At that point it comes down to individual responsibility and common sense. Accepting that trade blindly was a risk you chose to make yourself.

If you really think this was a sign of how horrible the player economy in GW is, try playing EVE Online; they've got some multi-thousand dollar Ponzi schemes under their belt.

No, that was not the window. It had text over it saying to check the offer, but was otherwise blacked out so I could not actually see the offer. Yes, I agree I took a risk after this happened. I do think this part of the trade system should be better documented in the manual that came with the game or a hint box since I am still in the tutorial area.

He was indeed rapidly cycling the offer, adding an item then changing it 4 times. Now that I see more how the system works I can see that you don't need to change it each time to add an item. My trades before this were for a Charr Bag, a single item at a time. Had not seen a multiitem trade before to know that was not the norm. Now that I know that is now, I can treat that behavior differently.

I have heard of Eve. Seems like a real dog eat dog game from some I have heard about it. I have played a game called Entropia Universe that has some crazy deals going on in it at times also. That game though has a real world cash out value to the game currency, so expected that in that one.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by carnage-runner

You weren't scammed... You just accepted a trade that you shouldn't have. Live and learn. Don't accept trades that are not clearly the value that you are expecting. Instead, cancel the trade and reopen.

Actually I was. We had a different agreement made through the in game chat. I had told him I was new to the system and having troubles with the trade window. He took advantage of the fact I was learning the games trade system. A GM seemed to agree. His account has been suspended.

TSBasilisk · Aug 08, 2012, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Indeed, it was a scam. The closest equivalent I can think of would be a short-change scam, distracting the mark with multiple numbers and items so they don't realize they've been short-changed.

Markaedw · Aug 09, 2012, 01:54 AM // 01:54

Second best way to protect yourself is if the guy can't get it right within 3 tries he is trying to scam or really stupid, either way don't trade with him.

If you need anything else let me know.

IGN Ryudo Dragonhart

legioncg · Aug 09, 2012, 03:12 AM // 03:12

So you were selling 3 black dyes for 30k?

tummlykins · Aug 09, 2012, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSBasilisk

Indeed, it was a scam. The closest equivalent I can think of would be a short-change scam, distracting the mark with multiple numbers and items so they don't realize they've been short-changed.

It might be a scam but it entirely relies on the player making a really, REALLY dumb decision.

Who accepts a trade when they can't see the trade window? I don't spend any money in game (even with merchants) if I can't see the window because I can't see what's happening. If you were randomly salvaging items in your inventory and the inventory went would you continue salvaging and risk destroying your equipment? If you did wouldn't you consider yourself at fault?

Don't accept trades when you can't see the trade screen - that's the only lesson to be learned here (honestly, it should be common sense).

Drk Dervish · Aug 09, 2012, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Is not blacked out he just didn't put any item in the trade. When trade session been change, a "warning label" saying trade session been change over the "new set of item being traded". However if the change was from 3 item to ZERO item the warning label still will pop up over a the trading screen even when there no item being offer. So its not blacked out it just have no item in the trade box after the change in the first place.

Like everyone say if all fail cancel and restart the trade, who ask you to accept the trade. Even you say you can't see any item already. Anet did all step need to alerting you without over doing it to piss off ppl. What you want a big flashing red screen.

BladeDVD · Aug 12, 2012, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytwobits

Today I had someone offer me some platinum for my black dye. They then said they were short by a couple of k, and instead of 30k for 3 of them, they woud give me 29k 750 and a few items. They then played around with the items five or six times. When they were I had a warning that they trade had been changed inspect it carefully, but aside from that, the rest of the box had gone black, so I could not see things anymore to inspect them so had to trust and hit accept. Sure enough the plat was now only 3 plat... got ripped off, but really the in game trade system facilitated it by it going black in the middle of the trade.

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying that they were offering you 29k 750 plus a few items? And you ended up with only 3k?

That's not how the black out of the screen works though. You should have been able to see how much gold was being traded.

Also, if you had put your mouse over the blocked out area, you would have seen that it immediately cleared (unless you had been experiencing some system lag of some kind I guess). I just checked this and it goes away almost instantaneously. (I have two accounts, which makes this easy to display.)

Now I play in a window, which, in my experience, seems to lighten up the screen a bit, so the recommendations to adjust your gamma may be a good idea, but as you can see, the money portion is easily visible. But maybe I'm misreading your post and you meant you were supposed to get 27k worth of items.

The top shot shows what you see when your mouse moves over the greyed out area in the bottom screen (no need to click or do anything else, just move the mouse over it...you can't see my mouse pointer because the screenshot functionality automatically removes the cursor). The change is very quick as I said before.

I'm just posting this to be clear about how the trading system works. It's not your fault you got scammed no matter what anyone says. The other guy clearly tried to cheat you and while there were warning signs, that doesn't make it ok for the other guy to try and steal from you. Also, I was really surprised that there weren't any images on the wiki about how the changed offer trade screens looked.

If you pm me on this site with your in game name I'd be happy to give you back what you got scammed out of.

Just don't forget you're still dealing with people when you trade...trust but verify and all that. Better luck next time.

mytwobits · Aug 12, 2012, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

I'm not sure if I'm understanding you correctly. You're saying that they were offering you 29k 750 plus a few items? And you ended up with only 3k?

That's not how the black out of the screen works though. You should have been able to see how much gold was being traded.

Also, if you had put your mouse over the blocked out area, you would have seen that it immediately cleared (unless you had been experiencing some system lag of some kind I guess). I just checked this and it goes away almost instantaneously. (I have two accounts, which makes this easy to display.)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n...adescreens.jpg

Now I play in a window, which, in my experience, seems to lighten up the screen a bit, so the recommendations to adjust your gamma may be a good idea, but as you can see, the money portion is easily visible. But maybe I'm misreading your post and you meant you were supposed to get 27k worth of items.

The top shot shows what you see when your mouse moves over the greyed out area in the bottom screen (no need to click or do anything else, just move the mouse over it...you can't see my mouse pointer because the screenshot functionality automatically removes the cursor). The change is very quick as I said before.

I'm just posting this to be clear about how the trading system works. It's not your fault you got scammed no matter what anyone says. The other guy clearly tried to cheat you and while there were warning signs, that doesn't make it ok for the other guy to try and steal from you. Also, I was really surprised that there weren't any images on the wiki about how the changed offer trade screens looked.

If you pm me on this site with your in game name I'd be happy to give you back what you got scammed out of.

Just don't forget you're still dealing with people when you trade...trust but verify and all that. Better luck next time.

You have it right. It was supposed to be 29,7XX gold and some items. Wound up with 2,7XX. So I should have been able to see the gold, I agree from your screenshots. My display seemed to have been messed up then.
Interesting to see what it should have looked like. Mine actually no longer showed the area with my offer, and the buttons went right under the text to check it carefully. The window had shrunk to the area of the text warning with the buttons now in the bottom of that dark area as well. The text covered most of the black area as well. That text was also in a larger font with a black area that covered the whole size of the window that was left, and was darker/ harder to read then in this screenshot. Like it had a black overlay as well. The top area with the gold was also gone. Odd, interesting to see what it should have looked like.

I did mouse over it, and maybe that undarkened it then. However he was also constantly changing the offer at the time, which I guess then instantly darkened it again. Somehow the rapid cycling must have glitched it I guess.

Thanks for those screen shots, I am glad to know how it should have looked and what may have gone wrong for me then. Now that I know what it should look like and how it should be able to be undarkened and that changing the offer like that is not the norm I should be better set.

I also see why people did not think it's behavior was as ridiculous as I did, as the screen shot you show is much more reasonable then what I saw. Seems I got hit by a display glitch either by coincidence or from the rapid offer cycling as well.

Thanks for the generous offer to help me out with the missing however I rolled a pvp character and have been making some gold now selling zkeys so will have the gold back soon. I almost have my pve character to level 20 and then will finally leave presearing, so I will need help more with advice at that point then gold I am sure!

BladeDVD · Aug 12, 2012, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Cool, good for you.

FYI, the items get greyed out again if you move the mouse cursor away from the items.

If you didn't include that info in your service ticket, you might want to resubmit it. That definitely sounds funky.